Soft vs Articanus
Game 1 FD
I don’t like FD myself because of no platforms so I feel like I get infinite edgeguarded from every part of the stage.
8:00 turn around fair after 2 zoning bairs. Bair would have hit too. It was on marth running in to punish land slow, I think. No followup after CC. Dunno what you can do to marth at 0.
7:55 marth tries to come down over a puff SH. Doesn’t work that’s so telegraphed. Gets his shield up in time for the bair. That seems to be a theme in this MU. Lots of swings are difficult to punish directly without perrrrfect spacing so he gets to shield a lot. Actually at low % I would bank on that and just grab. They love to shield and aerials don’t do anything for a bit so grab dthrow techchase/upthrow aerials.
Falling upair after but marth just moves out. I think either puff should practice poking a full shield with upair or stop doing it because it’s a huge waste of time the way we use it like that right there.
Wow marth whiffs that grab by a mile. Misspaced dair. jump away from land gets grabbed which is a little odd. Means he overshot the grab. Marth prioritizes combo over tipper because of %, puff jumps out.
7:49 ff pound is surprising and more likely because marth doesn’t want to run to the edge of the stage there.
Techchase is short, pressures shield with FH AC nair. shield grab was a little late and gets rested off a read. Had to frame by frame to verify it wasn’t a poke lol.
7:43 smart rest punish but soft recognizes and gets the DI, stalls so that he doesn’t give marth free hits, goes over
7:38 starts upair too late so landing lag gets baired, good jump out of hitstun avoids grab
7:35 recognizes potential bait and backs off rather than fall with bair then immediately jumps
reads grab attempt, dair punish but uptilt doesn’t combo this low. i think it starts at about 25.
no follow up on the grab, marth is cornered but bair whiffs, lucky duck under the grab but late reactions (which is understandable because a late reaction there is a normal reaction elsewhere lol) gets grabbed. DIs out again.
7:25 marth uses his ample real estate but is a little slow so soft can jump back, crosses marth up again. bair doesn’t have enough hitstun to combo, good DI out of fairs
7:21 marth ducks under FH bair and gets upaired because he’s not ready to move so soon. Obviously going to hit the ground based on holding down, soft’s brain keeps thinking marth is higher % than he is.
7:19 was mayyyybe a rest but land grab is safer because marth is afraid
that dair is a marth player habit so you can bait it
7:16 soft tries to preemptively rest a grab that doesn’t happen. That’s a break in marth’s pattern though. Poor DI off the throw.
7:06 soft uses inv to cut off half the stage and restrict DD, marth takes to ledge which is fine.
run up shield then roll right because he wants stage. Soft is ready, nairs (bad reward) but marth holds down. Tries to dair for some reason, puff gets a bair. Missed tech. Bad reaction (you could just run up and crouch next to him) and puff gets hit with attack. Has to give stage back.
7:02 Marth dtilts but recognizes he has enough time to DD grab a FH bair from puff.
stalls high, marth gives puff center
FH bair corners marth, FH nair in response (why?)
6:54 dash attacks into marth’s DD now that it is pinched so small
let go regrab edgeguard
6:47 waits for too long on the ground, dtilted, hangs out of the way, marth falls back farther than puff can and fsmashes
6:42 dsmashed going for greedy ledgegrab, that’s an early death
6:33 not sure why the empty land spaced out. Low bair crouch is better if no intent to grab/uptilt.
6:34 puff doesn’t like spacing on descent to spaces out enough to aerial an incoming grab but marth shffls instead.
6:31 spotdodges a grab that was cool. punish whiffs. Attemps to read away movement OoS based on previous history. Accurate but marth was quick. Late upair would have connected, early upair maybe covered still option via head poke
not sure what dair was for, maybe to cover a spotdodge. Marth runs through and fsmashes. When marths run through me I roll into them because I hate that shit and will rest them to get them to stop.
6:26 marth sees high, doesn’t expect sudden descent
puff’s bair whiffs the dj (upair but that is a weird spot)
attempts to premptively rest the grab. Input is late and whiffs. That’s a lot of reads on grab in a row.
Shieldbreaker is techable.
6:14 takes center then takes a lot of stage with still inv nair. Cool.
6:12 random fsmash
6:10 CC grab
stays around to long gets grabbed
6:04 takes center, jumps for the rest of the stage (seems like what makes a land good or bad is the timing of marth’s dash back, which is effectively random, which sucks). Doesn’t overextend but does unsafe uptilt that gets grabbed
6:00 goes straight to center, jumps in, marth pins himself but CC dsmashes, goes for a kill with another but is really slow. That’s several “random” smashes in a row, he wants to close the match out.
punishes with bair (would upair have gotten hit from the bottom? probs)
super super baits the roll, marth tilts shield up to avoid poke
5:52 pretty questionable dash attack
CC the side B, grab
5:46 do not like grabbing ledge there, gives up stage for no reason
marth just uses the stage presence to avoid puff’s hits and punish
5:35 drops the edgeguard hard
5:30 jumps away, then reads jump and grabs,
5:19 crazy scary dair
AC nair crouch rest
restrict DD then dash attack into it, edgeguard
grab fthrow edgeguard
misses a raw rest read on grab that is actually a run through
called out with dsmash grabbing ledge
misses a raw rest read on grab that was a grab lol
dair is whiff punished grab fair high %
some bad DI, some high risk high reward plays, some high risk low reward aerials
Game 2 FoD
8:00 FH nair predictive uptilts grab attempt, forces shield, marth jumps into upair, easy techase rest but messes up waveland (dunno why waveland at all)
7:54 upair forces marth off, not great, marth runs to center
soft jumps to plat, waits
7:52 bair whiffs and marth happens to jump in then, should have waited
goes high then back to plat
marth is hanging back looking for low bair but FHs recognizing high stalling jumps (no need to do those)
7:43 poor spacing
7:41 good empty land grab
barely avoids the dair. I think the fair could have comboed if input earlier, not sure
7:37 soft recognizes not enough time for direct punish so feigns bair and then grabs
bair beats nair from ledge I don’t know why marths do that, combos with turn around fair
marth was really high so that is an awkward edgeguard, needed to not go out for last hit but marth guesses badly and gets thrown
they both make wonky decisions and marth dies
7:20 puff goes high to avoid inv marth chases puff goes around for bair, granted a 2nd, CC dsmash. Def should anticipate that.
7:17 goes to side plat but it’s low so goes high to watch for openings
7:13 late reaction from marth, gets baired. I probs would have tried uptilt after.
reacts to jump OoS with upair, was weird % range where doesn’t combo to upair. I need to see if that combos to rest because that happens out of dthrow a lot.
7:11 rising crossup on shield isn’t safe
7:09 barrrely lands that nair, was risky. grab? dtilt lol. Fair after so that’s ok. Funny.
I would have run up shielded after but soft is ok with stage, messes up punish.
7:04 crazy spacing
6:55 recovers high
barely whiffs bair off side plat, goes to empty land punish again but marth grabs early, ideally crossup first
bad DI off the throw
6:43 intercepts marth’s path with dair. Soft keeps doing normally higher risk aerials with inv, which is neat. Tries to turn around uptilt but that’s not close to a combo. Even grab isn’t real at 0.
hangs around up high like armada’s peach
eventually guesses wrong with pound gets faired
6:38 dair from ledge really good there but crossup instead of combo to grab
predicts the timing of the WD wrong so loses stage but that’s a cool scenerio because FH bair that whiffs still burned enough shield that marth needed to twitch in some way or get poked.
good marth DD to get fairs, puff needs to fake approaches
6:25 I don’t like that nair because it’s so easy to beat and god has to personally grant you a followup if it hits
6:21 marth slips up gets baired. low% but doesn’t press down so eats another
soft either flubs or changes his mind and marth yolos a dsmash lol bair was suboptimal could have rested. After knockdown should have stayed grounded. rest OoS or dash attack bounce.
6:15 that dair is so scary, marth waits out the spotdodge probably accidentally
looks like puff jumped into the fsmash not anticipating the WD. whoops.
6:07 waits for something from marth, marth runs through which lets bair do a lot. Slow to grab ledge which lets fair happen. Actually a FH around it would have been best. UpB after was dsmashable or bair.
2 hbox edgeguards, stock.
5:49 slow to get out of marth’s path, goes high
marth can’t follow up off upair, gets faired, then juicy uptilt because low %, missed rest
5:41 kind of meh risk good reward pound but I think there it made sense for marth to dash back
5:38 dash grab barely whiffs, good reaction rest
empty land grab to edgeguard
spaces around fsmash, bair to hbox edgeguard
fall from plat with bair then extended edgeguard
crouch rest on misspaced grab
empty land is grabbed, bad DI off of throw
whiffs a dair recovering, grab fsmash
7:53 SH in DJ away to plat tests marth’s active-ness, marth backs away so next nair is more safe
7:50 really odd exchange, def should have just crouched
wtf is marth doing, so many wonky punishes this set
have to look up the frame data on reacting to marth’s throws. I think you just DI down and then rotate with the throw. Hard to tell what’s reaction and what’s prediction in practice.
7:44 risky pound, don’t think it had good reward either. Need to know based on %s.
7:40 WL off bair would have hit dash in. The fake out going up and then down just took time so eventual bair whiffs.
7:38 dunno what optimal punish is there. uptilt is so good if lands but very dependent on a bad opponent.
7:37 I think that was a good place to empty land. Why? Because he’s spaced far enough away to dash away from bair, in that marth DD spot and will run out of stage. Soft challenges both aggro and passive by AC uptilt but startup is poked. I think Hbox would have AC WDed just in case. Then we do the SH upair.
7:35 FH is great because lets puff react to marth, meh CC.
7:31 I do that nair too but I don’t like it ever. No reward. Just wait a moment.
7:27 marth’s SH makes fall to side safe.
7:26 should WL to plat then watch.
7:24 nair is a bait? Almost. I think SH bair dj bair/upair would combo there. SH bair has better range.
7:22 ledgegrab was greedy. High recovery is so much better vs marth ‘cause he has to commit to jump.
but I guess he’s got the read on the habit dair so he can combo to rest.
7:09 double stick DI
7:04 I think there if puff dips low then marth either whiffs a dtilt and gets baired OR crouches and then pound trades with dtilt.
7:03 WD away beats roll and dair. Don’t think either was likely. Less mobile at low %.
6:58 good going up to let marth whiff, bad
6:53 lol just jump away
6:47 great upair, whiffs rest
6:41 bair wasn’t late as possible so it wasn’t as deep as possible. There is no benefit to an late-ish bair over a late as possible bair.
good reactive FHs after.
6:31 potential rest.
bad DI off the throw
6:26 obv no reason ever to upsmash. Rest.
6:24 lol maybe descending pound instead of bair on plat
I bet a second jab then fsmash would have broken shield
6:21 another rest. Hbox edgeguard gets it anyway.
6:05 potential crouch rest after dair because he grabs habitually
6:03 repeat, looks like AC nair uptilt is a soft tactic from center. (maybe pound is actually good there?)
5:57 good positioning but a little slow off the plat
5:55 obv dair again, plus I dunno why upthrow > dthrow there.
5:54 reads the grab (because of run-through) but too early. Should probs spotdodge. Same reward less risk.
5:29 good pressure but bair has bad reward. Upair.
Too many scuffles this stock. Trading damage weird situation to situation is a bad gameplan.
5:09 wow godlike shield
5:04 there was time to crossup bair
4:35 oh goodness, should just uptilt lol
4:23 good grab
4:21 this kind of whiffed bair is bad spacing.
4:18 marths do this SH fair crossup often enough I think we should practice punishing reactively with upair or something.
4:08 rest and a half
4:03 fsmash too high risk for little precedent read. Would have gotten another grab.
3:38 techchase rest
upair rests dair read off of upthrow
crouch fsmash grab, hbox edgeguard
high %, dash attack into DD
marth recovers badly, gives free edgegrab
Gets scared and fsmash shieldpoke
Missed rest, shieldbreaker at high%
Missed rest, shieldbreaker at high%
neutral tempo (both free to move) guidelines(?)
* when marth is very close be patient and reestablish position outside of swing. Your challenges can be DDed around or stuffed too easily to make big commitments you can’t take back.
* when at tipper range stay low and reactive.
* when marth is really far away look to either take center or jump to plat as he comes in so that he has to jump to try to get you, if he stays empty or whiffs you come down with poke/punish
* when at “marth will DD out of SH bair” range FH, fall reactively, try to take stage
* when marth is cornered SH upair his available stage. Look to land at mid platform.
* when marth is running at you and gives up the meat of his dash back then SH bair dj
FH is nice because he can't DD around it for free
Will probably do set 2 later because this is fun to watch.
so maybe the distinction in your head is "can he dash dance around SH? If yes FH, if no, SH bair."