Marth

VS MARTH

* side platform reset when you don’t have stage control.
* marth’s dash dance is overly difficult to beat, so you don’t want to try
* from the side, prioritize stage control over combos. It is ok to forfeit direct whiff punishes if they let you pressure him into losing stage. This is especially good because it makes empty land grabs very good starting game 2.
* once marth is cornered, simply use FH bairs at inside edge of side platform to pressure him. Whiff punishes are easy because he can’t dash back and if he shields then you just WD back to the inside edge of the side platform and start again.
* converts to a super easy edgeguard. Very clean and pretty MU design.

don’t land anywhere near him when he’s free to grab or you die. YOU CANNOT RELIABLY CROUCH UNDER DASH GRAB.

Jumping marth is super easy because he can't grab you so you can shield > punish for free.
Grounded marth is tricky because his DD is the perfect length to out maneuver your approaching aerial and grab your land. For this reason you don't want to commit first without a good reason.

- rest/fair shielded aerials but be careful shielding grounded marth ‘cause of grab mixup.

- his shield is poked by dair/uptilt super super easy once his feet are exposed. His head by sh upair.

- upair uptilt rest stops working after 0, then you have to do one or the other to rest.
- he jumps out of uptilt rest after ~20%. Earlier is just a matter of no dead frames between uptilt and jump.

- dthrow to bait a double jump bair or techchase rest. Easy.

- rest his standing grabs.

- crouch is only enabled when he’s standing or shielding. If shielding WD in place to bait. Jump after him or shield on reaction to his movement.

- preemptive roll to rest marth’s fsmash arm

- hbox wd oos rest uptilt endlag

- you can afford to space a littttle closer to him by crouching because his sword swings in an arc

- shielding his sword is a free punish
- shield drop rests are easy
- Rest OoS in general is easy either straight or after WD (he's tall so maybe WD doesn't even help)

- try to deny him his DD

- AC nair to crouch should only lose to reactable dair oos on block

- dash dance outside of his range, pretty forgiving.
-when you uptilt marth and he CCs you can easily react, it’s part of the tree. Jab reset.

throws: avoiding the stupid tipper

down and with trajectory (away from marth) is generally best

marth edgeguard

a little weird but it just sort of works

1. aim to grab ledge as he falls below ledge height. If he sideBs you’ll have inv

2. immediately let go with fair. If he jumps this will stuff it. 

3. dj regrab will give you inv if he upBs on stage, let go dj rest

4. if he waits to sweetspot(/sideB then sweetspot) react to the sound (to distinguish) and roll

might have to do an extra refresh if he’s far enough out.

if he’s at a good angle/situation you can fall off with inv fair and bump him out for the kill

you also have edgeguards and marth killer

marth killer kills high and sweetspot because high = free rest

at high % sing, don't rest

marth dtilt:
total 49
hit 7-9
iasa 20 (will probably dtilt again or dash back)
effective endlag 10
6 hitlag
6 shieldstun
-4 on block
second dtilt on 27

an aerial OoS will hit the startup of anything that he does but dash back unless he’s fully spaced at which point it’s obvious you won’t get a direct punish.
you can’t hit him with an aerial from any spacing if he dashbacks out of dtilt
so if you SH after him then he’s going to dash outside of your SHFFL range and probably grab your land
so you should FH so that you can confirm that it hits or if he dashes back
I think that FH fair is better than FH dair because
a) you raise your legs over a second dtilt
b) you don’t have to land if he dashes back

 

to test: can you avoid death at 30% off a grab by guarunteeing not-tipper for either throw with no DI? I don’t think he can grab AC bair. Unless he starts a dash grab from initial dash. Not sure. Are crossups on marth’s shield ever safe?