VS SHEIK
* when she charges needles go under or over right away
* vs grounded sheik spaced bair beats/whiff punishes everything and forces her backwards
* nair rest/dair vs her CC keeps her honest
* to beat bair sheik has to start challenging it with vertical spaced aerials, her own bair, or shield camping
* sheik on a platform is an invitation to wait patiently and minimize damage before you get underneath her then upair to oblivion
* we can beat out the jumping by pressuring the space above sheik’s head well with FH fair/nair
* forcing her to wait defensively underneath our aerials opens up a descending upair>crouch, which at worst makes her run away, provided that you confirm no CC or preemptive tilt.
* recover high, just above her FH range.
* always always DI everything away
goals: punish jumps
force sheik to jump/above you and then wreck her with upairs
* sheik is only ever at an adv if you stay in her needle angle or sit inside of her shffl range but if you are outside of it then FH aerials punish her jumps super easy (FH fair is better to hit it preemptive, bair is better as whiff punish)
* if you do this a lot and sheik jumps very high to avoid you then it’s an invitation to sneak under her needle angle (then she gets wrecked), otherwise you stay over it.
* so it’s very very spacing heavy, stage position is not very important but having her next to a side platform is helpful because you can use it to get under her jumps easier.
* when far away SH when close FH
* at low % AC nair is moderate risk high reward
* punishing things OoS is overly difficult so roll away from that position
* grounded sheik is a bit harder to deal with than jumping sheik, luckily sheiks all think that platform camping is good in this MU. It is not.
* recover and stall in between stocks at about her FH height. If you go lower than that without her making it safe then it's too easy for her to funnel you into a bad spot.
vs grounded sheik you want to swing second. Always. If you act first it's going to be grabbing her, not an aerial. It's hard to approach her from the air because she can crouch and dtilt or dsmash or stuff your aerial with an ftilt or jump over your descent and fair and all of that sucks. So it's a little street fightery in that you want her to be jumping and you can encourage her to jump by punishing the other things but if that's the case you have to be very ready for the jump when it comes.
In cases where you come down directly over her head either fade away or dair. DON'T nair or upair. Even hungrybox loses that situation because he uses upair and gets hit by a move that would have been stopped by dair's low hitbox. Make sense?
I think that puff wins the MU, sheik just has super sucky tools as long as the puff is playing melee. Sheik wins if you aren't patient and if you try to cheese her instead of outspace her. All of the crouching next to sheik strats are bad. There are obv spots where you have to after an exchange (which is ok because she won't think, which is good) but it's a horrible plan A or even plan B because the risk reward is stacked in her favor by a lot. You take 2 dsmashes and that's most of your stock.
It's hard to have great spacing for the whole set but if you do and you don't commit to things that aren't listed here then you win by a lot.
She doesn't want to do much but needle, bair, dsmash so be aware of that.
* when she charges needles go under or over right away
* vs grounded sheik spaced bair beats/whiff punishes everything and forces her backwards
* nair rest/dair vs her CC keeps her honest
* to beat bair sheik has to start challenging it with vertical spaced aerials, her own bair, or shield camping
* sheik on a platform is an invitation to wait patiently and minimize damage before you get underneath her then upair to oblivion
* we can beat out the jumping by pressuring the space above sheik’s head well with FH fair/nair
* forcing her to wait defensively underneath our aerials opens up a descending upair>crouch, which at worst makes her run away, provided that you confirm no CC or preemptive tilt.
* recover high, just above her FH range.
* always always DI everything away
goals: punish jumps
force sheik to jump/above you and then wreck her with upairs
* sheik is only ever at an adv if you stay in her needle angle or sit inside of her shffl range but if you are outside of it then FH aerials punish her jumps super easy (FH fair is better to hit it preemptive, bair is better as whiff punish)
* if you do this a lot and sheik jumps very high to avoid you then it’s an invitation to sneak under her needle angle (then she gets wrecked), otherwise you stay over it.
* so it’s very very spacing heavy, stage position is not very important but having her next to a side platform is helpful because you can use it to get under her jumps easier.
* when far away SH when close FH
* at low % AC nair is moderate risk high reward
* punishing things OoS is overly difficult so roll away from that position
* grounded sheik is a bit harder to deal with than jumping sheik, luckily sheiks all think that platform camping is good in this MU. It is not.
* recover and stall in between stocks at about her FH height. If you go lower than that without her making it safe then it's too easy for her to funnel you into a bad spot.
vs grounded sheik you want to swing second. Always. If you act first it's going to be grabbing her, not an aerial. It's hard to approach her from the air because she can crouch and dtilt or dsmash or stuff your aerial with an ftilt or jump over your descent and fair and all of that sucks. So it's a little street fightery in that you want her to be jumping and you can encourage her to jump by punishing the other things but if that's the case you have to be very ready for the jump when it comes.
In cases where you come down directly over her head either fade away or dair. DON'T nair or upair. Even hungrybox loses that situation because he uses upair and gets hit by a move that would have been stopped by dair's low hitbox. Make sense?
I think that puff wins the MU, sheik just has super sucky tools as long as the puff is playing melee. Sheik wins if you aren't patient and if you try to cheese her instead of outspace her. All of the crouching next to sheik strats are bad. There are obv spots where you have to after an exchange (which is ok because she won't think, which is good) but it's a horrible plan A or even plan B because the risk reward is stacked in her favor by a lot. You take 2 dsmashes and that's most of your stock.
It's hard to have great spacing for the whole set but if you do and you don't commit to things that aren't listed here then you win by a lot.
She doesn't want to do much but needle, bair, dsmash so be aware of that.
getting dthrown spells death.
grab ledge in time to get inv for the poof then let go dj rest on reaction to not ledge
if no inv then normal getup the poof then run up rest/dsmash if went up
crouching sheik’s dsmash
0-54% (55%+ first hit of dsmash breaks CC)
2nd hit rarely hits after CC pushback
press jump as the 2nd hit whiffs (too early and you’ll jump into it)
SH rest ~10 frame window
alternatively SH dair or shield and shieldgrab her assuming you don’t get pushed too far.
if no inv then normal getup the poof then run up rest/dsmash if went up
crouching sheik’s dsmash
0-54% (55%+ first hit of dsmash breaks CC)
2nd hit rarely hits after CC pushback
press jump as the 2nd hit whiffs (too early and you’ll jump into it)
SH rest ~10 frame window
alternatively SH dair or shield and shieldgrab her assuming you don’t get pushed too far.
AC nair crossup
vs CC
0%, -3
12, -1
24, 0
30+, -6
no CC, hits top of head
0%, -3 (with ASDI -3)
12, 0 (with ASDI -11)
18, +1 (with ASDI -11)
21, +3 (with ASDI -11)
24, +5 (with ASDI -11)
30, +5 (with ASDI -11)
39, +6
57, +9
no CC connects low
0%, +7 (with ASDI +7)
12, +7 (with ASDI 0)
24, +16 (with ASDI 0)
soft fair to rest is a real combo from 60+ BUT it's got a slim window unless you intentionally hit late during the fair (difference between a 3f window and ~12f)
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